Regrets, Kevin Roberts has a few.
The president of the Heritage Foundation stepped into a maelstrom when he came to the defense of Tucker Carlson this week after Carlson’s friendly interview with Nick Fuentes, the 26-year-old white nationalist popular on the far right for his avowedly antisemitic views. It started with a video Roberts posted to X.
“Not as many people as I thought,” he told RealClearPolitics in a Saturday interview, “were ready for a little bit of nuance.”
Roberts told RCP that the backlash has further clarified something that he already believed, namely that antisemitism has become “a much more pronounced problem on part of the right.” He said Heritage will redouble its efforts to root it out, even if some conservatives vehemently disagree with his approach.
The controversy has already rocked Heritage, sown dissension among the ranks internally, and raised questions about the institution’s status as the preeminent conservative think tank in Washington, D.C. In the last 48 hours, Roberts has repeatedly sought to clarify exactly what he meant, fielded calls from concerned allies and donors, and removed his longtime chief of staff, Ryan Neuhaus, from the position.
The comments that ignited a firestorm came Thursday and lasted less than three minutes. Roberts rejected online speculation that Heritage was distancing itself from Carlson, saying that the popular former Fox News host remains a “close friend.” Addressing the ongoing debate over U.S. policy toward Israel, he argued that conservatives are under “no obligation to reflexively support any foreign government,” adding also that Christians can critique actions of that nation “without being antisemitic.”
But then Roberts, who launched “Project Esther” specifically to combat antisemitism, said that while he abhors some of the things Fuentes has said, “canceling him is not the answer.” Instead, he continued, “When we disagree with a person’s thoughts and opinions, we challenge those ideas and debate.”
The video attracted more than 21 million views. Roberts joined two conservative podcasts to clarify his views. Condemnation still came swiftly from Republican senators, other prominent conservative organizations, and even from within Heritage staff who rejected outright the suggestion that they seriously engage with the view of an online white-supremacist like Fuentes.
The nuance Roberts told RCP that he was trying to communicate? Canceling Fuentes only amplifies his message, making his views more intriguing and thus compounding the problem.
“You can detest things that people say, as I and Heritage do about so much of what Fuentes has said, without making the tactical error of saying that they ought to be canceled,” he explained. “Because if you cancel him, then all that will happen is that his audience will grow.” He stressed that it is a question of strategy, not ideology. Placing Fuentes out of bounds “makes those ideas, lamentably and ironically, almost more cachet” particularly among “disaffected young men.”
“I should have been more specific,” Roberts told RCP about his reasoning in his initial Thursday video. He followed up by joining two conservative podcasts on Friday to be more explicit. And when Fuentes asked just exactly what he “abhors” about his views, the Heritage president wrote a lengthy post on X elaborating, “because there is plenty to condemn.”
Fuentes has already attracted an audience in the millions, gaining more ground in recent months as younger conservatives increasingly question American relations with Israel. Hardly just a policy critic, the podcaster host has denied the Holocaust and repeatedly praised Adolf Hitler.
Asked if antisemitism is a threat to the conservative movement, given the popularity of Fuentes and others like him, Roberts replied, “It is obvious if his audience is that big.” He described antisemitism as “definitely a growing problem,” one that defines “a small part of the American right” but is “more pronounced” among younger conservatives.
His team has been working on a plan to tackle that problem for months and will soon release a series of videos and host events to denounce what Roberts described as “noxious ideas” in a way that appeals to a younger, more online audience.
Asked if the Fuentes and Carlson audiences are essential to the future Republican coalition, Roberts replied, “I think a big part of their respective audiences certainly are.” Hence the reason that he hopes to reform those flocking to Fuentes.
“We are so concerned about that problem as a political issue, because we’re talking at least several million young men,” he said, “but I’m even more concerned about it as a dad, regarding, frankly, their souls.”
Heritage has faced public and private pressure to distance itself from Carlson as the debate over Israel intensified on the right in recent weeks. The populist firebrand had previously won awards from the foundation and spoke at their events. To Roberts, it “seemed pretty coordinated.”
Roberts has repeatedly rejected those calls to cast aside Carlson “not just because of our friendship with him,” he explained, “but because even if we wanted” to break ties with the popular firebrand, “tactically that would really dumb.” The Fuentes interview only intensified the pressure. Hence what the think-tank president described as his attempt “to reset the conversation.”
Now, a conversation behind closed doors is in order. Famous for its policy of speaking “with one voice,” Heritage staff have divided roughly into two camps: those denouncing Fuentes and others ready to reason with his audience. Some longtime staff are already looking to leave, according to sources with direct knowledge. The internal division was only heightened when Neuhaus, Roberts’ chief of staff, shared social media posts suggesting that employees who disagreed with his boss should resign.
Roberts told RCP that he has neither accepted nor sought the resignations of any Heritage employees to date. He called Neuhaus “a great man” but dismissed his social media posts as a mistake: “He should not have done that, and he knows that.” His chief of staff has been reassigned to a policy role.
National Review was the first to report that news.
The saga has already rattled members of the Heritage board of directors. Robert George, a professor at Princeton University and foundation board member, wrote a lengthy post on X declaring that the conservative movement “cannot include or accommodate white supremacists or racists of any type, antisemites, eugenicists, or others whose ideologies are incompatible with belief in the inherent and equal dignity of all.”
Despite rumors to the contrary, according to sources with direct knowledge, there have been no resignations from the board as of press time. Roberts is the third Heritage president in the last decade and said he remains confident in his position and the role of the think tank in the days ahead.
“I am confident in everyone’s virtue at Heritage. I’m confident in what I have done over my career, and our speed at Heritage is to be on offense, which is what we’re going to do. People expect us, in the movement and across the country, to have moral clarity on things,” he said.
“And the moral clarity on this is that if you want to eradicate these terrible ideas, then you have to recognize, and unfortunately, go engage them,” he added.
“As the plans become clear in the coming days and weeks, we will be fine,” he concluded.
